Your comments are absurd. Besides ruining your credibility by immediately suggesting some bizzare conspiracy theory, you are missing the point of this whole tragedy.

The people most impacted here are those that (1) were kept on the welfare reservation by a hopeless and failed Democratic hand-out policy, or (2) people who depended on Mayor Nagin's drowned school buses to get them out, or 3) people who totally disregarded a MANDATORY EVACUATION order to their own detriment.

Get real here.

A note in passing to Geoff: While I understand your passion, I think there's a better way to respond to idahovandal's nonsense than a bunch of ad hominems.

To idahovandal: Geoff's right, however, about your posting.

(1) Your first assertion is pure right wing boilerplate. If you took the trouble to check the demographics of New Orleans, you'd find that the majority of the people cut off there during the hurricane were not welfare dependents, but were members of the working poor, a group whose size has increased dramatically since Bush took office. In fact, although you clearly haven't recognized it yet, you're one of them ... that is, unless your annual income is on the order of tens of millions of dollars. That's the grotesque thing about your devotion to Bush: to him and his ultrarich cronies, you're just as insignificant and contemptible as those poor folks in New Orleans. For the time being you're just more useful.
(2) No one believes that local authorities are blameless in the disaster. However, from the time that Bush declared the impending storm a national emergency on the Saturday before Katrina hit New Orleans, he assumed ultimate responsibility for ensuring that the response was adequate and timely. Then he did nothing. In fact, as everyone knows now, he went on vacation and ignored the pleas of both the Mayor and Governor, who repeatedly called the White House to ask for assistance. Their calls were not answered. As a result Bush was unaware of what was happening in Louisiana until one of his staff members stuck a CD recording of news broadcasts under his nose and virtually forced him to pay attention. These things are all matters of public record now, so you might as well stop trying to shift the blame. Bush dropped the ball - again! - causing innocent people to suffer and die - again! - but this time the cameras were rolling.
(3) Once again, if you'd bothered to check the facts - I realize this is not a habit with right wingers! - you'd have found that all mass transit service to the inner city areas in New Orleans had been stopped before the mandatory evacuation order was issued. That's right: no busses, no trains, no airplanes ... Since most of these people were too poor to own cars - or to buy gas for them near the end of the month, if they did own them - how do you suggest they should have moved themselves and their families to safety in the time available to them?

Your problem, Idaho Boy, is that you lap up the vicious spew of rich right wing media mouthpieces like Rush Limbaugh - who, by the way, wouldn't condescend to pee on you, if you were on fire -without doing the least bit of fact checking or intelligent analysis. As a result, to anyone who does check the facts, you sound like a complete fool.

Someday you may find out the hard way how big a fool you've been, when you or someone you care about is destroyed, because Bush or one of his equally incompetent appointees hasn't done his job. (After all, it isn't only the poor who suffer! Few of those who were killed on September 11th, 2001 were poor, but they died anyway, because Bush ignored warnings about terrorism.) By then, of course, it will be too late. Shouldn't you start asking sensible questions now, while you still have a chance?

Conspiracy? What conspiracy?

As far as credibility is concerned. You are a member of the Church of Bush cult. You have been trained to reject all facts, all evidence, and only believe the lies and spin from the Church of Bush.

So, it is really a sad joke that you would state we are damaging our credibility when you believe that nothing we do or say has any credibility.

Your entire post is nothing but Church of Bush propaganda.

ROTFL

Let me guess Geoff. The helicopters at the other hospital were actually owned by Haliburton....Dick Cheney personally instructed them to be shot down if they carried patients from Charity hospital.....Bush created the entire hurricane to suppress oil supply so his secret Saudi oil partnership makes billions of dollars....

Are you Louis Farrakhans email list?

vandal:

Where are you getting this conspiracy crap? There is no conspiracy surrounding HCA and Charity Hospital.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you. Your brain rotted away long ago from drinking the Church of Bush cult kool-aid and robotically regurgitating Boilbutt Limpballs propaganda.

test comment

I dare to change the subject....Bush in this case is not the Idiot ...
Cindy, Your popularity is short lived...
I too lost a loved one and I support His ideals of fighting for His country...
May God Bless You Cindy..

So, americanwoman:

Yes, I agree with you. It is tremendously sad that Katrina pushed Cindy off the stage.

Comparing idiots to W is just plain unfair to idiots, and as Franklin D Roosevelt were he alive would say, is "a vile slander." Let's not keep this going until some self respecting idiot gets a good lawyer and begins a libel suit on this matter.

Americanwoman,

Bush the idiot placed an even bigger idiot in charge of Fema. He has to take responsibility for this.

Bush never fought for his country. He even cheated on his time in the National Guard.

Even Republicans are joining Cindy in trying to get Bush to pull out of Iraq. Maybe you have not been reading the polls lately.

Cindy, i'm sorry if i may seem blunt, but get a life. And for the rest of you- can't you see that this woman will do anything to get on the news? She is using the politcal party in office now and the death of her son as an excuse to bash Bush. Come on now.
Don't get me wrong, I am very saddended about your son, Casey, but there is a time to mourn, and a time to move on. And then there is a time to stop making press statements. I think that's now.

Theoldman, this is rediculous. Clinton had an affair in the whitehouse, Then there was allways the Watergate scandal with Nixon, the list goes on and on. Heck, even Thomas Jefferson raped one of this slaves. Drop the Nation Guard thing allready. Give Bush a break. Through his two terms he's been through a hell of a lot more then most other presidents. 9-11, this, Iraq, just let it go.

votebush:

When George Bush earns my respect by demonstrating courage, integrity, and honesty, then I will respect him.

Unfortunately, Mr. Bush will never do this because he is an immoral, lying, greedy, hypocrite who wears Christianity as shield to ward off criticism.

I won't go into further detail. Since you are a member of the Church of Bush cult and are brainwashed by Boilbutt Limpballs propaganda, there is nothing I can say that will convince you that George Bush is an appalling disaster.

We can only hope that you will eventually wake up. When you do wake up, you will realize that you are responsible for the murderous, corrupt, vicious, hateful, and traitorous behavior of fake-Christian George W. Bush by supporting him. If I were a better person, I would forgive you and hope that you do not suffer from the realization of what you have done. Unfortunately, I am not perfect so I sincerely hope that the policies of George W. Bush fall upon you and your family in the most damaging and destructive manner possible and that you suffer the consequences of those policies for the rest of your life and that you live long enough to see your children suffer as well.

Geoff:
thank you for the blessings on me and my family! it is good to see the kind of people America has to offer these days.

Moving on, I am wide awake. You say that we as conservitives are 'brainwashed,' yet that is just your opinion. How do you know that it is not you that is 'brainwashed?'
After all, we are all just sharing our views. Was America not founded to be a country of democratic policies, where one can vote, express his own view, and have the right of free speech?

votebush:

I never said that you are a conservative. You are a member of the Church of Bush cult, which is anti-Christian and most certainly not conservative.

I would never refer to you or George Bush as a conservative or a Christian because that would be insulting to Christians and to conservatives.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

Once again, you immediately lose credibility by calling Bush supporters anti-Christian. You are advertising the fact you don't know what you're talking about.

Geoff:
First of all, there is no "Bush cult." That is nonsense. I think what you are referring to is the people who still agree with Bush, even though he has made some mistakes during his presidency. You think that we have been brainwashed, and that is why we are somehow 'blinded,' and we can't see what an 'evil' man he is. Going back to my earlier remark, these are all just our views as Americans.

I think the main issue here is with the liberals now. Everything is hunky dory until someone comes along and says something that they don't agree with. Free speech is free as long as some one doesn't come along and say something that opposes what you believe.

Votebush,

Almost all of Bush's problems are the result of being the most inept president we have had in the last 100 years. He has what I call the reverse Midas touch. Every thing he touches turns to crap.

Yes, Clinton was a womanizer but Jefferson did not rape any slaves. When you make dumb statements like this, your credibility goes South.

Yes, you have the right to free speech. However, it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Yes, Jefferson did, and if you have ever visited Monticello, you would know that. But that is beside the point.

Your 'reverse Midas touch' is absolutely rediculous.

Let's go back, for a minute, to the Clinton administration. He also knew that there was the threat of war etc etc, with the middle east, but yet he stood by and did nothing. And because of his sappy judgement, Bush is getting blamed for things that could have been taken care of previously.
That's why I say: Give him a break!

Concerning events like 9/11 and any lingering Clinton Legacy three events prove that all the responsible for those disasters falls completely on Bush. The three events are Somalia, Waco, and the Millennium Plots. In the first two cases, Clinton and his people accepted responsibility for mistakes they made handling events they didn't start.

In the third case, we see exactly what the USG could do (without the Patriot Act). Each president is responsible for dealing with the plots he confronts. Because of direct, engaged Presidential (and Vice-Presidential) involvement in trying to stop possible plots and alerting security folks on the ground to the risks allowed that administration to avert 5 (that's right 5) plots to attack us on US soil.

What did Bush do when he was told about the possible 9/11 plot. All he did was passively ask whether the problem was being handled. Naturally, he got the answer you'd expect - yes. With his digging into the guts of the bureaucracy he or his people might have connected the dots and prevented the 9/11 disaster -- after all there were five chances to stop the plot.

Having worked in the government and as a contractor I know when members of Congress or the President (or Cabinet Secretaries) ask questions all other work stops and everyone works to answer their questions ASAP. That's how at least the FAA works. Since Bush didn't push on the security bureaucracy all the information that was stovepiped throughout the Government including the alleged Able Danger info.

That information stayed stovepiped because the President didn't get involved. He was simply too lazy to get the job done and so brought these disasters on himself.

Therefore, he gets absolutely no credit for dealing with these problems since he could have at least tried to avert them.

Those are the facts jack. DEAL WITH IT.

Votebush,

A question that was brought up on this web site years ago asked a simple question. What has President Bush done for the benefit of the average American? I have never met a Republican who could come up with an honest answer.

For your information, Clinton is no longer the president. The buck now stops with Bush who's approval rating is at an all time low. I have always said that Bush has exceeded my expectations. I always thought that he would screw things up but not to the extect that he has done. You may not agree with my analogy of the reverse Midas touch. How would you state the situation where every thing a person does fails?

Why should we give the man a break? I know it is not his fault that he was born with a low IQ. Maybe we should blame people like you.

I will simply repeat my statement - made previously:

When George Bush earns my respect by demonstrating courage, integrity, and honesty, then I will respect him.

He has shown none of these charactersitics and it is doubtful that he will ever achieve the maturity and strength of character required to achieve these characteristics.

The above are facts. My opinion is that Hell will freeze over before George W. Bush will achieve mature manhood or character.

I don't blame George W. Bush for his shortcomings. I blame those who support him because they are hateful bigots, greedy pricks, or zealots Hell-bent on turning the United States into a theocracy for Fake-Christian Taliban.

Here's another fact: You cannot be a Christian and support George W. Bush. Bob Jones, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and their ilk claim that Bush is a great Christian. That pretty much sews it up.

60% or 70% of the U. S. and the entire rest of the world oppose George Bush and see his evil nature. In fact, I'd dare say that a higher percentage of people on this planet are opposed to George W. Bush than were opposed to Adolph Hitler when Hitler was Fuhrer of Germany.

I understand that those of you who are members of the Church of Bush cult believe that you are persecuted and that it is a badge of honor and purity to be opposed by virtually the entire planet. But, that is a delusion.

I suggest that, if you believe yourself to be a person of faith, that you get down on your knees and pray for clarity of thought, a pure heart, and forgiveness for having helped George Bush perpetrate his evil on our country and planet.

Theoldman:
He has nominated Judge Roberts, a supreme court judge, who appears to be a strict constitunional constructionist.

Geoff:
I am no longer going to discuss this with you. All though I have to say, many of your comments gave me quite a laugh! Thank you!

Theoldman:
He has nominated Judge Roberts, a supreme court judge, who appears to be a strict constitunional constructionist.

Geoff:
I am no longer going to discuss this with you. All though I have to say, many of your comments gave me quite a laugh! Thank you!

Votebush,
I will not argue that Judge Roberts appears to be a good choice. Even a blind hog will occasionally find an acorn. I will even admit that I was surprised that Bush did not pick someone who would anger the Democrats. Whether Roberts turns out to be a good judge and leader of the supreme court remains to be seen. Don't count your chickens before the eggs hatch.

I didn't say for a fact that he is a good man, I just said he appeared to be one. We will all wait and see how things turn out.

Hence, I think we have found a common ground!

Well, votebush, since you don't have sufficient confidence in Mr. Bush to make a good decision about a supreme court nominee, you have now joined the overwhelming majority of Americans who think Bush cannot make a good decision. Some polls run as high as 87% who do not trust Bush to make good decisions.

You have no one fooled here.

I must say that I really enjoy your little routine. No matter what we say, you pick a minor aspect and claim that it causes us to lose credibility. Cute. Then, kissing Bush Butt all the way, you claim that you don't even think Bush is a good man? We're really laughing now.

We know that your feigned criticisms of Bush are nothing but big fat whopping lies - or, you are truly brainwashed by the Church of Bush cult. It doesn't make any sense at all. If you beleived your criticism, you wouldn't be "votebush". But, if you were really a brainwashed COB, you wouldn't criticize the head cheerleader of your cult.

So, the only thing left is that you are a shill pretending to be a moderate dumb-ass. But, it isn't working.

Here's my position on you: When you claim that we are losing credibility with our comments and objecting to our indictment of Bush, I know we are on the right track. We've hit a nerve.

The sad part is that even one person in this country (or on this planet) still hasn't figured out that Bush is a cynical, evil, corrupt, and incompetent manipulator for the benefit of his cronies.

Since you have exposed yourself as a shill, you are not in that group. You only pretend to support Bush because you think that Bush corruption will result in money coming to you that was stolen from other Americans. (Fess up. We are curious. Do you own Halliburton stock? Or, do you have another approach to benefit from Bush corruption and cronyism? We're curious. You've already been exposed, so, you might as well come clean.)

We understand who and what you are because you exposed yourself through your own incompetence.

You might want to find another place where you can start off fresh. If you are intelligent enough (doubtful) to have learned anything from your experience here (more doubtful), then you mght fool people at another liberal website (highly unlikely).

Your name, "votebush" gives you away. The next time you come to a liberal website for the purpose of advancing the idea that liberals are loony and George Bush is good or competent on any dimension, I suggest that you pick a name that doesn't immediately identify you as a Boilbutt Limballs shill. Here's a suggestion: Call yourself "ignorantanduninformed".

you have the same routine

why are so many rock stars , hollywood elites, always sharing the same views? is it cool to bash bush for everything? i think saddam
would have used his amex-card to show a nice little paper-trail for all
the lefty-libs to realize he funds terror orgs. naieve is one to think he would . al qaeda , the best terror org. in the world vowed to kill all jews and americans way be fore 911. ask clinton about all of the qaeda attacks during his tenure. even pre 911 , the plan for wtc-2 was in wip.
cash is easy to distribute , leaves no paper-trails for you to see . but then sean penn says i should trust his view and jump on the political bandwaggon cause its soo kool dude! and furthermore why do leftists
take everything out of context . thanks to jesse , al, michael, susan,
martin, bruce, mick, and all the other club members that know all the answers , please convince me otherwise. i mean this whole leftwing-network is such a hollywood fad. i would like to thank al s. and jesse j. for making me loathe my own party. i am not trying to make anyone mad , i am not a neocon or a rightwing hack, hollywood cracks me up!!

Come on raven17 Saddam wasn't stupid.

Why in Allah's name would he have funded any of the Islamist groups we (the USA) became interested in after 9/11? They were just as intent in ending his regime as they were getting the US out of Saudi Arabia. Most successful dictators don't fund their enemies and Saddam was (if nothing else) a successful dictator.

Saddam ran a totalitarian, nationalistically, socialistic regime modelled on the fine work of Josef Stalin. ; -) This is why I expected insurgency in March 2003 (its what JS did in 1942).

Iraq (and especially Saddam) weren't nearly fundamental enough for Islamists like UBL.

BTW World-wide most experts consider al-quiada to be bush-league compared to groups like Hezbollah and Hamas. If these groups decide to attack the US they will succeed. I hate to say that but, it's true. If the IDF can't stop them what makes you think DHS has any chance. (think Katrina).

I know it is inconvenient for your argument, but I heard George W. Bush say on C-SPAN that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

For once I beleive him. Had to be a first time.

Geoff:

I do not recall saying that I don't have sufficient confidence in Bush. I have much confidence in him, and I know that he will make mistakes, as he allready has, but I trust that he is TRYING to make the right decisions. We are all human. We all make mistakes. Playing on one's weaknesses (like you are doing with Bush) is juvenile.

But you know what is funny-
is the fact that you actually put time and effort into arguing with me. If I haven't made any good points as you say I haven't, then why waste your time getting exasperated with me?


But you know what is really funny?

You just called a 13 year old a dumb-ass.
Now that IS funny!

Raven17,
I think if you checked out rock stars and movie stars for their political bent you would find out that there are just as many Republicans as Democrats. The Hollywood Republicans are just a little more liberal than Iowa Republicans. This is why they do not stand out as much. Perhaps you did not notice the celebrities at the Republican convention.

Votebush,

If you are only 13 years old you are way too young to comment on politics. You have no experience in life to back up any argument. Of course I will admit that many people live to be 80 or 90 and never smarten up. In my life I have learned never to attach myself to a politician. They will always let you down.

so you are saying that I am just too young to possibly know anything about the world around me?

ah, i think that you are mistaken, my freind.

Oldman:

votebush is old enough to memorize Boilbutt Limpballs propaganda. He is also old enough to be brainwashed by the Church of Bush Cult. Nothing he (or is it she) has said indicates anything other than blind obedience. These characteristics do not require age in years, maturity, or intelligence.

Actually, oldman, I think he is claiming to be thirteen so that we won't think him quite so stupid. But he (or she) doesn't realize that an eight year old could spot the silly talking points that votebush spouts. His intended effect is for us to exclaim, "Only 13? Wow, he's brilliant." That simply demonstrates that votbush is totally out of touch with reality. Regurgitation of memorized propaganda is pitiful, no matter the age of the regurgitator.