Finally waking up to the fact that you have a party of losers. Terri m was nothing but a stalking horse for Hillary in the midst of the Kerry Campaign. He and the rest of the Clinton crowd went over to Kerry with the goal of making sure he would lose so Hillary would have a clear shot in 2008. As soon as I saw them arrive I knew Kerry was toast. I hope his prenup includes a good going away present.

If the Dems don't get their act together, let's LEAVE THE STUPID PARTY!!! Go Green or libertarian.

Tha's just what the green party needs another 20 people who can't make it in the real world. Trust me they already have more than enough such folks.

Look Wolfego:

We need to do what works and beat back the theo-fashits.

So, while it may be soothing to say "if the Dems don't get it together..."

What we have to do is make some decisions about direction and be unified.

While, I want the electoral system opened up to more parties, I don't want it on the current model: Whichever side has the most parties getting votes loses to the other side.

I think that we might actually do better taking over the Democratic Party rather than trying to build the Green Party at the national level. A lot of the election reform movement and the training ground for new elected officials is at the local level. I'm all for working with the Greens to get Greens elected. But, I'm not interested wasting my energy on candidates that cannot win. My problem with the Greens is that I get attacked as a sellout everytime I try to get them to practice pragmatic politics to win.

It's kind of funny though. Because Howard Dean, who is a perfect example of non-ideological politics is loved by the Greens even though they should be calling him a sellout on almost every issue.

I'm open to any ideas. But, I'm not interested in ideological purity. I'm interested in destroying the theo-fascist lock on the Republican Party and getting some good solid liberals and progressives elected.

"theo-fashits". If I was a Democrat, I'd propose a required religion class in public schools. Not a bible study, but an understanding/history, since you can't teach any one religion in a diverse society. Joseph Campell would be a good model. It would be fun watching the Fadwells etc. try to impose their twisted versions. Might open some eyes besides educating.

That would be great. I think everyone should read Joseph Campbell. Understanding different religions throughout the ages would help a lot of people with their tunnel vision. Fallwell would have us burning "The Power of Myth" in no time.

In part I have to agree. The DNC is responsible for running a good campaign. Like it or not you have to give the Republicans credit for knowing how to win an election. They succeeded in making a moron look good. I would even bet that they could get tumeroll elected as dog catcher in a small town.

I learned long ago that while I would love to run for public office. I have this really bad habit of not suffering fools very well and for telling the absolute truth even when it is politically not the wisest thing to do. So, I doubt thateven Karl Rove could get me elected dog catcher. By the way old man we are both showing our age if we can equate to dog catchers. Towns don't have such positions anymore.

This is what I am sorry about and maybe sorry is not the correct word. I don't have any respect for Blacks (African Americans) and/or what ever they who does not know their history who voted for BUSH/CHENEY - it is above the Republicans. These men (saved, christian or what ever they call themselves today) were and are now against the Civil Rights Act. Cheney and his beloved - opposed Mandela getting out of Prison - Bush and his family have killed more human beings than most of those who call themselves christians (hopefully). God help those of you who are so uninformed ( I don't wish to say ignorant - because that is what those you endorse call us).

You say GOD - I don't know the God you serve and really I don't want to - he believes in WAR - he believes in CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - and he is AMERICAN wrapped in RED white and blue - He HATES. I don't need you nor do I want you.

The thing I know is this - there were AFRICANS who sold their fellowmen into slavery - Powell and Rice can bring that into force on the 21st century. God Bless them - they are in bed with those who hate and hate with a vengence. The Bushes and Cheneys are sad people and they don't like me EITHER.

kincais: Please explain what you think the US foreign policy should be and how you would have handled the aftermath of 9/11

Thank you>

After reading that petition it's no wonder why the democratic party lost the election and the house...it's this prevailing attitude that is so out of step, out of tune and out
of touch with the realities. It appears that the democratic left has so much hate, anger and resentment that a clear focus and understanding of the issues cannot be reasoned with because the focus is on that which has destroyed what the party stands for. I cannot in good conscience sign this vitriolic rantings of someone who calls himself a democrat, even if you are a radio host..you don't have a lock on what is right and this my friend is not the way to go. This is not coming from enlightenment or an under- standing of the issues but coming from pure hate and blind vengeance. This is the same old tired approach for the past 40 some odd years and this year it has come to an ugly head..and you want to continue with this same line of thought...where is the constructive thought process here...hate, hate and more hate..I'm sick to death of listening to talk radio spewing out hate, trying to formulate the opinions of others to match their own vile thoughts. You have become a dime store conspiracy theorist...I no more believe there is a war going on against the democratic party than I believe the democratic party is in a war against the republicans, because I sure can't find out where headquarters is located. The mistake that was made in this election was nominating John Kerry...his background just doesn't measure up to presidential material....Unfortunately the democratic party has become that which it despiseth so much.

REFLECTIONS ON THE 2004 ELECTION AND DEMOCRATIC PARTY PROSPECTS
Dave Haigler, Taylor County Chair

Despite the presidential popular vote numbers being 51% Bush, 48% Kerry, and Ohio & Florida defying exit poll predictions that Kerry won there, which would have given Senator Kerry a victory, he decided to concede rather than wait out those controversies. I didn't understand that with prior estimates of the provisional votes as high as half a million, most of those coming from Democratic precincts, but maybe Kerry knew more than I did about it.

I'm facing the fact that the four candidates I worked for in this election all have lost. Those candidates besides Kerry are: Congressman Charlie Stenholm, Supreme Court candidate David Van Os and Sheriff candidate Art Casarez.

In general, my thinking has been for several weeks, facing the prospect that these four might lose, that I'm responsible only for dealing with the facts as I know them to be, not misperceptions that other people make voting decisions on.

What major misperceptions led to the losses by my candidates?

See rest of article - www.haigler.info/Abi-Demian/page3.html.

This article has been archived at the Abi-Demian, which now has its own domain name at www.abi-demian.info

It's worse than you think. Check out the Democrats invited on TV, it's as if they are reading a script written by republicans. 'Golly gee, look at all them red states. Guess we were not right wing enough. We'll try harder next time.' What they are not saying is, 'It's regrettable, the people have made a poor choice. The economy has serious problems. It should be obvious we cannot stablize Iraq alone. After four more years of Bush, the people will vote democrat'. etc.

Good riddance to John F. Kerry. If the democrats took more of a moderate postition and got rid of the socialist agenda they might actually win. I know I would be interested.

I agree with the sentiments in the petition, but I expect the top dogs in the Dem party already know things aren’t going well. What’s needed are some usable ideas on how to win elections. Contributors to various web sites suggest that Dems adopt Repub positions on abortion, etc. Giving lip service to Republican positions in hopes of attracting a few votes from wishy-washy Repubs seems like admitting the Repubs have the right ideas and would draw down well-deserved derision on the party. The Dems need to identify the key issues and craft their own platform that will provide what this country needs and counter the weaknesses in the Repub program.

Maybe a "shadow government" or cabinet similar to the English tradition would help in this. This group of policy wonks would work continually and its output would be made available to all on the web and in publications under the Democrat imprimatur. No one would need to be unclear on what the Dem alternatives to the Repub positions are and where the Dems stand on all issues of importance.

The Dems’ chances of winning presidential elections depend too much on who and how clever the candidate is and not enough on the party’s policy positions. With carefully developed and well-publicized positions, the candidate wouldn’t have to devise and refine his own positions on the fly, and campaigning could become a matter of reinforcing and emphasizing rather than educating.

Bravo Lemastre...what it comes down to is strong policy position...I know those high up in the democratic party will never admit it but myself and other's know John Kerry was in fact, flip flopping all over on the issues. Sometimes even I couldn't understand what his positions were and I sure as hell couldn't tell my republican friends what they were, except just coming up with something on the fly. But until they are ready to acknowledge the weakness in this past campaign then they will not be ready to move ahead. I feel that Kerry became desperate and started surrounding himself with bad decision makers....

You are missing the point. Entirely.

This is not about Kerry, even though he deserves every bit of criticism that will now come his way.

This is about the betrayal of little 'd' democrats across this nation.

Unlike Bush, who believes himself to be chosen of God and therefore infallible, the rest of us are mere human beings, struggling to do the best we can. The fault does not lie with the people who voted for Kerry, it lies with the party leadership, who have continually sold us out for their own interests.

Like it or not, the Democrat Party is NOT about being GOP lite. It is NOT about being moderate. It is about representing working people, the working poor, the underprivileged, those without health insurance, the elderly, the unemployed. It is about protecting our civil rights, regardless of sex, race, or religion, and representing the people upon whose backs this country was built.

No Enron could have ever existed without us. No Halliburton could have built their weapons without us. No Detroit automobile factory could have built so many millions of cars without us. No railroad would ever have been built without us. THAT is what this party is about.

And THAT is what this petition is about. This isn't hatred, it's outrage at being once again betrayed by the leadership. We agreed to put aside our differences in this election, because we knew full well the very real dangers ahead with Bush staying in office. Neither Geoff nor myself originally supported Kerry, but all of us knew the importance of standing together.

At the least, with Kerry, we would have gone no further on Bush's age of war pre-emptive strike policies, and we would have had the better chance to actually stop this insane war based on lies. We could have fought back against outsourcing, against privatizing Social Security, against leaving our elderly without affordable prescriptions. Right down the list, we would have had the chance to turn back the clock on things that this administration has done that has harmed so many Americans.

By hiding in their club rooms, refusing to come forward and take a stand against this blatant election fraud, refusing to listen to our voice, refusing to truly represent the rainbow coalition of democrats in this country, refusing to take any action at all to protect our rights, they have betrayed us. We did not betray them, we worked in a 'bipartisan' way to support Kerry. They betrayed us.

I will no longer support the DLC/DNC. Period. Either MY party grows up, grows a backbone, and stands up for what is right, or one of three things is likely to happen. One, people will get over their grief and join together to take back the party from the DC Beltway Boys who have run it into the ground, or Two, people will just say the heck with it and go with the Greens or another third party, or three, people will opt out of participation completely, never again voting, believing there is no use in voting since the Republicans will just steal what they want, and they will turn their backs on the whole nightmare, just trying to survive the insanity to come.

While I go for option one, I suspect we're already seeing the other two options being chosen. All because our dem leaders cut a deal with the devil and sold us out. If they don't act, NOW, to right this great wrong, it will be too late.

I've been calling for more policy content in future Dem campaigns and proposing that the party set about compiling some via a “shadow government” scheme. I assumed that since so much of Kerry’s campaign was devoted to chasing Karl Rove’s red herrings that there might not be a lot of substantive position material on hand. As usual, I opined without much research, and my assumption may be all wrong. I still think there wasn't enough party policy or detailed planning presented by the Kerry campaign. But much of the the material for it may have been available — languishing on the Democratic National Committee web site. Although the Kerry-Edwards site may have been the official Dem campaign site, some useful info in the battle against Bush is in the DNC site at:

http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/index.html

Too bad this stuff wasn't hammered into the voters' heads during the campaign. Instead we got the details of Kerry's purple hearts, over and over.

Now I assume that a lot of voters are as ignorant of the DNC reports as I was. Obviously, Republicans aren’t going to seek out the DNC web site and study these reports. But if more receptive minds are out there, the poop in the reports needs to be brought to their attention via media such as Radio Left and Air America, as well as newspaper columnists. Many columnists list their e-mail addresses, and they should be directed to the DNC material in the course of any communication with them. And those of us who take part in political internet forums should excerpt from them and mention the URL whenever appropriate. I think every stone in our arsenal needs to be lobbed.