Do you honestly think that Dan Rather or Tom Breokaw or the folks at CNN would not be all over this story if there was even a shread of truth in it. Time to put the Black Helicopters away guys and relax. The next four years will be a wonderful time. Get a job, put a few dollars away for retirement and enjoy life.

"Honestly" and "think" are two important words here. Nothing could be more important in a democracy than an honest counting of the vote. The simple fact that so much effort has been put forth by the Republican party to discount, dissuade and discourage voters must say something to you. Whether you believe or don't believe in problems in achieving a true count, these efforts to push voters from the polls must at least start you "thinking". So give it a try - start reading and start thinking; you might just surprise yourself.

I do believe in allowing every legally intitled person to vote and have their vote counted. To question the illegally registered, the dead, the noexistant voter when someone not legally entitled shows up is NOT voter suppresion but voter validation. There is a huge difference. If the dems and their fellow travelors did not make such a mess of their voter registration drives then challanges would not be needed. Let every vote be counted is such an obvious code phrase that it no longer flys. If you are rightfully there to vote being asked to show identification should not be intemidating. If you have something to hide then it certainly is and should be. Sorry your plea falls on deaf ears.

You have a knack for the defining the central issue. In this case, 'deaf ears' appears to be a core philosphical value of the right. After listening to years of Fox and CNN, I don't hold you entirely responsible.
My point was (and I will rephrase it for you) is that legitimately registered voters' votes are not being counted. Regardless of political affiliation there must be concern for the failed integrity of the election process in the US. Again, this is not party line related. Please don't use blind -or deaf- partisonship to argue your points. If you are able to honestly justify the discrediting of a single vote then state your case and I will take the time to respond.

If you revise your statement to read a single legal vote, then I agree with you. What bothers me is the willingness by some to want to count voter intent when they did not properly cast a ballot or people who have not legally registered or have not registered but still want to vote or people that do not exist being placed on the rolls so someone else can show up and cast the vote. Or people who are registered in two or more different places or states. That is what i disagree with. Asking for a legal registration and a legal vote are not code words for voter surpression unless you mean the supression of illegal votes that might be cast for your candidate.

Do you honestly think that Dan Rather or Tom Brokaw or the folks at CNN would not be all over this story if there was even a shread of truth in it. Time to put the Black Helicopters away guys and relax. The next four years will be a wonderful time. Get a job, put a few dollars away for retirement and enjoy life.

Right. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

Only a dumb-ass would bring up black helicopters.

The Chairman of Viacom (CBS) endorsed George Bush. NBC is owned by GE and wants to sell weaponry to the Pentagon.

Just remember that the German people elected Adolph Hitler. So, just because Bush was able win (or steal) the election has nothing to do with the quality of his governance.

Of course, you could argue that German voters did a great job when they elected Adolph Hitler. (Personally, I'm not a fan of Mr. Hitler. He's too conservative for me.)

dummyroll, you're an idiot. Try researching WHO OWNS the media, dufus, and what party they contribute to.

I'll even give you a hint...try researching GE, their war machine profits, what they own and who they support.

Is it possible the facts can get through your dim brain? I doubt it.

Who needs facts when you own the voting machines, right, dummyroll?

Ohhhh, what rhetorical magnificence and sophistication. �dummyroll� wow, aren�t you clever. Such a witty little one.

geoff - you seem to have this obcession with hitler. I'll bet you have a fantastic collection of hitler memorabilia. Always beware of those thast protest too much.

As to the rest of you conspiracy fans. I guess the only election that will ever satisfy you as being honest is one whee your guy wins. All other elctions have to be fraudualnt as you can not believe that anyone else could have ideas that differ from yours and still win fairly.

Must to hard to go through life always thinking that someone is out to screw you over at every turn in the road.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why the discrepency between exit poles and counted votes exists only in battleground states and only favors Kerry.

It's a statistical anomoly that should be troubling to anyone but the blindly partisan who don't care about the process as long as Bush gets elected.

But if you can explain it, please do. There are, as far as I can figure 3 possible explanations:

A The votes weren't counted properly.
B The exit polls were wrong (but why only in those states?)
C The votes were counted properly and absintee balllots strongly favored Bush (but again, why in those states?)

I want to dismiss any sour grapesey conspiracy theories as much as the next guy, but the numbers don't lie. (if they do, show me the better numbers and why they're better).

I think Geoff would like to forget about Hitler if the Bush Administration would stop reminding him.

You are correct. I do have an obsession with Hitler.

The lady who lived next door to us in Baltimore had a number tattooed on her arm.

When I was in junior high, my best friend was a fellow named Peter Hirsch. I always thought that his parents were over-protective of him. Then, one evening I was invited to dinner at his house. Both of his parents had numbers tattooed on their arms.

Peter told me later that his mother's entire family including her parents, brothers and sisters, her husband, and all five of her children were killed at Dachau. Peter's father was the sole survivor in his family, including his children. When they got to the states, they met each other, married and had Peter - their only child together.

I always thought that there must be something wrong with Germans to elect Adloph Hitler and let him do what he did. Mr. and Mrs. Hirch kept telling me that there was nothing wrong with Germans and that what happened in Nazi Germany could happen anywhere.

I didn't believe them until November 2nd, 2004. Now, I wish they were still living so that I could tell them I now understand what they were talking about because I've seen it for myself.

On second, thought, I'm glad they're not alive. Seeing history repeat itself, they'd be terrified for Peter and his family and that would bring back the horror of those tattoos.

So, yes, I do have an obsession about Adolph Hitler. I have personal experience with what he did to people and I see it happening all over again right here in the United States.

To put it bluntly: It's not Osama Bin Laden that scares me.

The sad thing is Hitler was a nice guy, compared to many of the communists the left has supported over the last 100 years.

One of the strangest habits in the American media, is to give glowing obituaries to die-hard Stalinists, about their continuing wacky love the Uncle Joe, and their belief in the progressive force of communism.

Makes me wonder whey they don�t send off neo-nazis with the same patina of sentimentality.

man, you sure are a hot one....."Hitler was a nice guy". How sick ! I'm seriously thinking of ignoring you in hopes you'll just fade away. Next thing ya know you'll be saying what my boss says : "Dubya is a nice guy" . SICK !!!!!! and moronic

You might ignore me? Oh, the horror, the horror.

Did you actually read the entire sentence? Hitler was evil, but the last century threw up worse despots. Certainly some that racked up bigger body count.

Sorry if my rhetorical excess offended you, but Geoff et al are immune to subtlety.

Instead of addressing the hard truth of what Geoff described, you ONCE AGAIN go off on a communist bashing tangent that has NOTHING to do with Geoff's point.

I'm not a communist. Neither is Geoff. Therefore, your faulty logic is just that, faulty. As usual.

The POINT is that there is a REASON for the comparisons to Hitler. THE SHOE FITS. Keep living in denial, keep ignoring the FACTS, sweetheart, you're doing EXACTLY what the German people did when Hitler 'won' the election and turned Germany into a MILITARY MACHINE, pursing an 'age of war', slaughtering millions of Jews along the way, and plunging the globe into the second world war.

Since your fuhrer has already declared we live in an 'age of war', just where the hell do you think we're headed? Disneyworld???? sheesh!

Oh come on Geoff, tell the truth. You enjoy it when your lover puts on his nazi uniform and spanks you with his crop. Admit it. The truth shall set you free. Come out of your leather closet.

I hope that you don't stoop to slimy's level and reply to that, Geoff. Is there a way of blocking people like this? I mean, didn't Bush run on 'moral values'? I can see that his minions follow right behind him in their 'Night-of-the-living-dead" Zombie walk.

We don't need slimy's 'moral values' on this site!

You know, that is perhaps the worst aspect of the left. It�s willingness, nay, lust, to censor people who they disagree with. Deneen, I just bet you love speech codes on campus, don�t you?

Geoff would have to get a very long step latter to �stoop� to my level.

deheen I am surprised at you asking for blocking of disenting opinion. Isn't that what you are all in a dither about with Bush. You love to blame the right for censorship but it is really the left who has all of the PC codes, hate speech rules and a general dislike for hearing any other opinion. Lighten up, life is wonderful if you let it into your dark world.

Funny how you guys are thrilled when censorship is applied to the liberal opposition on freeper sites, but you shriek like babies if YOU get censored.

Here's a clue -- this is NOT public domain, this is a site OWNED AND OPERATED by Radio Left. And every site nowadays has something called T.O.S. -- ever heard of it? So just as the freepers at free republic have the right to delete posts by liberals and ban them, Geoff has the right to delete and ban you.

He does NOT have to tolerate you crapping on HIS site, that HE is paying for out of HIS pocket. Every one of us is permitted to post here, at Radio Left's discretion.

The knife cuts both ways. Deal with it.

Nice attempt at rationalizing your hunger for censorship.

A bit of a failure, but nice try anyway. It�s odd how the people here really feel this need to be protected by dissenting opinions. Almost as if deep down, they know they must try to defend the un defendable.

My Motto: "I will die for your right to express your opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it."

Your Motto: �I will die for your right to express your opinion, as long as it is in lock step with the dogma I agree with.�

While we're on the subject of DEMOCRACY......I'd like to add this bit to the discussion ;
"[The Framers of the Constitution] . . . had no wish to usher in democracy in the United States. They were not making war upon the principle of aristocracy and they had no more intention than had the Tories of destroying the tradition of upper-class leadership in the colonies. Although they hoped to turn the Tories out of office, they did not propose to open these lush pastures to the common herd. They did believe, however, that the common people, if properly bridled and reined, might be made allies in the work of freeing the colonies from British rule and that they--the gentry--might reap the benefits without interference. They expected, in other words, to achieve a 'safe and sane' revolution of gentlemen, by gentlemen, and for gentlemen."

John C. Milller. (1943). Origins of the American Revolution

Now doesn't that make you want to cry outload ?

Okay, I, for one, am ready to get back to the issue at hand. There are people out there that are taking voting machine validity seriously. I think we should too.

And...if there are any of you on this blog are in Ohio, please, for the sake of the country, demand a recount! You only need 5 people per county, right? Speak up!

It was more than just the machines:

THIS ELECTION WAS STOLEN:
By voter intimidation,
By misinformation,
By the buying off of election officials
By legal tactics and manueverings,
By malfunctioning and intentionally mal-programmed voting machines,
By early, absentee, military, and provisional votes not getting counted.

Democracy died a death by a thousand wounds. They covered all of their bases.

deneen: Democracy was not stolen. It was confiscated by an ignorant multitude. Just read the posts on this web site. I have read the right wing posts for almost two years and only one guy came close to having any brains at all. That is one out of at least 50 or more. They are ignorant and very proud of it.

Oldman, I am beginning to think that we should just let them rot in their own excrement. If they want to rule this country so badly that they stoop to rigging elections, all the while calling it 'American democracy', maybe we should step back and let them live with the horrors that Bush will reign on them. Even baby birds don't crap in their own nests. Bush has already proven what horrible things that he is capable of and these Zombies voted for him. What the hell is in that kool-aid?

hey oldman. How does it feel to sit there all "superior" and lose election after election to a bunch of "stupid" people. Maybe it is time to reacess exactly who is the brightest and who maybe operating a couple of cards short of a full deck.

Tumeroll: Here is how you lose an election to a bumch of stupid people. If the stupid people outnumber the intelligent people the stupid people win. With your high IQ this should be easy for you to figure out. Us educated and intelligent people do not feel superior. We just feel outnumbered by idiots.

thus was always so and always will be. But the truth of the matter is that the one who is really the brightest is the one who figures out how to get the less bright to vote for them not against them and so far you will have to admit therepublicans have been the brightest in that aspect of things. After all Tiffany's while it does make good money selling to the pretty people, Walmart really earns the coin by selling to the masses.

As long as you guys stick to your white wine and brie crowds, you are sureto keep losing. Try getting your shoes dirty with some pig shit and you will start to win.

This election was just the latest of a chain of failures. I suspect one of the very first failures occured with the drafting og the constitution. This was followed by drastic editing.
We the people were never intended to how a real voice in this pseudo democracy.

Jay you have finally had a break through and gotten it right. You are not supposed to have a say so just sit back fasten your seat belt and enjoy the ride. Leave the driving to the chosen ones. We promise to allow you the one true right - That is the PURSUIT of Happioness. No guarantees for anything other than the Right to PURSUE happiness. Have a happy day.

I say to the media "Are you serious?" This election is NOT over and they know it! We must do something now, NOT just accept it! There are so darn many reports of rigged and stolen election attempts coming in increasingly. No one has won yet, but I'll bet you all of the mountains and oceans in the world that if this election were fair, Kerry would win by at least some margin. While Kerry was gracious to concede, he should not have done so. This is way too early. If Bush is successful in stealing another term, we will have nothing of value left in this world, but don't stop living. We have to fight! Yes, we are starting to wake up to how we could have done better and could do better in the future, but if we stop fighting now, we are doomed to tyranny! Please know these facts: If a person steals an election, they'll do it again. When we lie, or drink too much, or smoke or do drugs, or steal, or kill, or anything of the sort, we'll do it again! That's just human nature and that's why it is better not to do it in the first place. It certainly is no surprise to me that this election is stolen. What surprises me is that it is decided for Bush so soon. The truth of the matter is that Bush didn't win in Ohio and votes have yet to be counted there and in other areas. Votes have also been lost and stolen, and those damnable voting machines are not good at all! Some people's votes were destroyed. Democrats were told to vote on another day. Just contact the NAACP. We need a paper trial. I suggest three ideas -- 1- We need to redo the election will an ALL paper trial and pencil count and have the election counted and monitored by European judges or Canadian judges and have it be accountable to the International Community to be approved and certified, 2- We need to consider direct representation by the people -- let the people choose the court judges and vote on them from the lower courts to the Supreme Court -- again using a paper trial and adequate information before hand. Let the people vote on the issues, the bills before both Houses of Congress, the executive orders, with some kind of a majority -- say 51% or something sensible. Give veto power to the Senate, 100% of the senate approving a veto. At least consider this even if we have to go to a computer every day or weekly to vote by sending comments directly to Congress (not individual electoed officials. It supposed to work the way we have had it, but now the system is broken so that it doesn't work. This would be an emergency Constitutional Amendment until we get our country back and our elected officials are totally honest. I don't get anything I want. I wanted a library in our city and a swimming pool which would have been good for the public morale. A lot of people wanted that, but it got voted down by brainless Republicans -- the majority! Instead, the expansion of the county jail got approved with our tax dollars. It makes more sense to vote for things that keep people out of jail in the first place! We should be willing to sacrifice for the common good, instead we are paranoid! We need direct representation of all of the people in congress in Washington, DC. Otherwise, we will have absolutely NO SAY in our futures! 3- Do not approve of this election from any state who stole it, or the party that stole it. It is quite apparent that the Republicans stole the presidential election and in all probability at least some of the Congressional elections! Because they stole the elections, their candidates should not win in that state -- be it Bush or Congressional Republicans! We should put Al Gore in as standing President until this whole mess gets straightened out. After all, Gore won the popular vote and would have won in Florida, at least, had the election not been stolen four years ago. If we don't do all of the above, here is what's down the line for us if this election remains uncontested and uninvestigated -- just a sample of what's ahead -- An impoverished and very grossly polluted enviroment with no wild heritage left, an industrial-military complex, anyone who disagrees with the current administration being labeled as enemy combatants, anyone who is racially or ethinically different being labeled as enemy combatants or "rubbish", a badly impoverished health care system so that the sick and the elderly and the disabled die like flies, children who don't know good ethics and grow up without good manners, war without end, no middle class but only the poor and the rich as the poor get poorer and the rich get richer, and I could go on and on! If that is what we want in our future that is what we will get and so we should demand to the DNC and to the world that Kerry does not concede and undo his concession. Yes, I'm glad he was gracious, but we should NOT be gracious about it. We need to do one of the three (and I reiterate, for any who may have missed the point): (1) Redo the election with the support of an International mandate! Forget the cost, forget the inconvenience. It needs to be done the old fashioned way -- a paper trail with counters who will not throw out the ballots. Also do a recount of votes in states where problems have occurred. (2) Get the DNC with the backing of an International mandate that there be an emergency amendment for Direct Representation. Most mainstream American voices are not being heard! (3) If the election was stolen before, it is being stolen again and will continue to be stolen for the rest of time. No one who has stolen an election should be able to claim victory, no state who has stolen an election should let that election stand, and no party who has stolen an election should be allowed to claim victory for that state! We need to insist that the Democrats (DNC) back us and again we need an emergency amendment mandated by NATO or some International agency! If we don't, we will likely lose everything -- we will lose our sense of identity, we will lose our individuality and our worth and dignity as individuals, and our ablity to have hope and to do good will be lost. Besides that, many millions of people, maybe billions of people will die that do not have to. THAT'S THE BOTTON LINE!

Here, here.

I wish I had an audio file button with applause on it!!

We should DEMAND another election in Ohio and Florida (at least) done on paper with pencil NOW!! If we roll over on this one, democracy will be a thing of the past in this country, nay, throughout the world.

deneen: Great idea, I think you should demand a new election. I belive that you will get your wish in 2008. In the mean time how about coming up with some positve ideas about what you want to see happen as far as life in the United States. Stop hiding behind your hate and come out and explain your position. I really do want to know.

Wow, that is a lot to consider. Let's see, a constitutional amendment requires a super majority in congress then it goes out to the states to vote on. I belive that an emergency amendment could be rud=shed through in about two years if we hurry. Some how I do not see the majority of the public even voting directly approving an international election commission that would approve our election results beforethey became official.

I would say that for you to be succesful in all you wish you will need a complete rewrite of the constitution and that my friend is called a revolution. hey it worked in 1776. Give it a try.

As to the lose of public funds for the Library and the pool. Now is your very own chance to do something important. Start a privately fund for both projects. Get a campaign going and raise the monery. It will be much more meaningful to all involved if you do it rather than a faceless government. Go for it, It is truly the American way. Boot stap it and you will be amazed at what you will accomplish.